Winchester BismuthReview: Your Complete Guide, Best Hunting Rifle Slings Ultimate Guide [2023], 25-06 vs 30-06 Springfield Review & Comparison, 6.5 Grendel vs 300 Blackout Review & Comparison, 11 Reasons The Leupold VX-6HD Is An Outstanding Hunting Scope, 450 Bushmaster vs 45-70 Review & Comparison, 28 Nosler vs 300 Win Mag Review & Comparison, Best 22 Hornet Ammo For Hunting Coyotes, Bobcats, & Other Varmints, 15 Best African Hunting Books For When Youre Dreaming Of Being On Safari[2023], Best 350 Legend Ammo For Hunting Deer, Hogs, Bear, & Other Game, Best 6.8 Western Rifles for Hunting Ultimate Guide [2023]. .35 Remington: Ultimate Guide To What You Need To Know 351 winchester for sale on GunsAmerica. Buy a 351 winchester from a 20" barrel. Paul tests 357 magnum against 30 carbine out of a couple revolvers.Shirts and patches: https://www.tristartrading.com/collections/paul-harrell-official-store. I too have an M1, and also two 1907's - both from the first year of production. The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for . The .30-30 offers more power with certain loads, better long-range performance, and soft recoil. with a similar 180-grain bullet. Finally, Winchester had developed an autoloader powerful enough to truly be used on North American big game. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. Its not a long-range powerhouse by any means, but it can be loaded with more aerodynamic .30-caliber bullets that offer higher ballistic coefficients (BC). Several manufacturers submitted proposals, and Winchester's little "United States Carbine, Caliber .30, M1," or, more simply, the M1 carbine, was the winning design. These seemingly small differences added up to a significant . *I have mentioned before that it is in fact theItalians who claimed the prize of first intermediate caliber to be adopted as standard issue, with their long but still very much intermediate 7.35x51mm round. IMO, any of them would be a good choice. The Legend has more trouble fighting wind and gravity. Unfortunately, finding .401 or .351 Winchester ammo is also pretty difficult as well, though its still possible to find the odd box of factory ammunition and the necessary reloading supplies from places like Buffalo Arms. Apr 21, 2013. appearance wise, i am partial to the Winchester M94. That version is in some dispute, with evidence that Whelen himself developed the cartridge or at least worked with Howe on its development. Winchester Model 74 Semi-Auto, Pre-War .22 short. I believe it never will. Upon firing, the breechblock is delayed in its opening by its weight and spring pressure until the rising chamber pressure overcomes the inertia of the bolt. Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to like? Beats me, but nobody liked it enough to keep it in production. According to a recent Federal Emergency Management Agency report, fewer people are "prepping" today compared to previous years. Read on to find out. The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber ( 7.62 mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. 26" Barrel. . The 32 WSL duplicated the 32-40 ballistics. Perhaps thats why it has survived. could have been necked down to .30 and would have made a better round for the M1. Lever Action Rifles: Winchester .30-30 vs Marlin .30-30 Winchester 351 Self-Loading: Truly Amazing! With a 200-grain bullet at 2460 f.p.s., it is a heavy-hitter on whitetails. Mag. Its spawn, the .351 Winchester Self Loader, fared a little better, but it was never in danger of greatness. with a 250-grain Oryx bullet-both with a 200-yd. WOOD HAS A REPAIR AT THE WRIST. Re: Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Using basically the same action, they introduced the Winchester Model 1910 semi-automatic rifle along with the .401 Winchester Self Loading (.401WSL) in the spring of 1910. .351 s.l. But unfortunately, only rifles made for these cartridges was Winchester, no one else chambered them, how come? I have all the calibers but short the 401 s and the 22 autos ,can you reload or sell a dox of each. Bottom line? All of this might sound like splitting hairs, and it is. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. 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I read Thompson made a experimental rifle in 351 WSL. The weapon was originally issued with a 15-round detachable magazine. The first trigger housing used with an M1 Carbine was a modified Winchester M1907 trigger housing used in Winchester's first prototype submission to the Ordnance "light rifle" trials in August 1941. Hard to find here in Canada. Other firms and individual designers submitted several carbine designs, but most prototypes were either unreliable or grossly off the target weight of five pounds. While similar to the M1 carbine, it lacked the stock, thereby making it a handgun. But the military has hundreds of millions of 30-06 ammo from WW1, and didnt want a new caliber. Buy 3, however, or any 3 non gun non ammo items, and shipping is Free on the entire order. Access the newest seasons of MeatEater, save content, and join in discussions with the Crew and others in the MeatEater community. Please click the above links to take a look at all of the .30 M1 Carbine and .30-30 Winchester ammo we have in stock and ready to ship, and let us know any parting thoughts in the comment section below. was initially chambered in Remingtons Model 8 autoloader, soon followed by the Model 14 pump-action. The first cartridges were made by turning down rims on .32SL cases and loading with .308 caliber bullets which had a similar profile to those of the U.S. military .45 ACP bullets. . Its safe to say that your local sporting goods store is more likely to stock the .30-30 Winchester than the .350 Legend. SMOOTH PATINA METAL WITH GOOD WOOD AND A NICE BORE. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. You cant compare it to todays AR 15s. This is the Winchester model 1906 .22 LR pump action 20 in. It can be found, and reloading it should not be a problem. Try Buffalo arms in Idaho for brass and bullets for reloading. The .35 Rem. In 1966 there was a gold miner that was hunting with Dad and I. All Types (1000+) Shaw will make a rifle, as will any other custom, or semi-custom, riflemaker. After reading about the Winchester self loaders, I decided to look online to get more information and see what I could find out, It seems like most writers complain about the Winchester self loaders action, but this was a new product. As illustrated in the chart, .243 Winchester rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 3180 feet per second (fps) while .30 M1 Carbine rounds travel at a velocity of 1990 fps. In 1965 Remington took it to the next level with the introduction of the Model 600 Magnum Carbine. That higher BC allows the .30-30 to maintain a flatter trajectory and buck the wind more effectively. The first 100,000 cartridges manufactured were headstamped ".30 SL" (for "self-loading"). the barrel, receiver. Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester. Rifle Carbines are available in 40 S&W, and some use it to hunt deer and wild hogs, but even the 32 WSL and 35 WSL beat it in ballistics. Javascript is required. Townsend Whelen praised it as a "good cartridge for deer and similar game in close timber."[3]. The 32 Winchester Self-Loading Cartridge is the parent case for the 30 Carbine. Versatility refers to the range of animals that could be realistically harvested with a cartridge. In the years since, the .35 Rem. The 357 Magnum fired a 158 gr SP at 1240 fps. and a 250-grain Partition load with a muzzle velocity of 2550 f.p.s. If you get a GI M1 carbine (only ones worth considering) then youll have a REAL military weapon. The M1 carbine was issued to infantry officers; machine gun, artillery and tank crews; paratroopers; and other line-of-communications personnel in lieu of the larger, heavier M1 Garand. When we pitted the 30 Carbine vs 5.56, the 5.56 won 7/10 categories and tied in two, thanks to its low recoil and high accuracy capabilities. This 170-grain .30-30, for instance, drops 7.7 inches at 200 yards and 26.6 inches at 300 yards. Winchester Rifles - Semi-Auto Pre-War for sale - Guns International Overall, the .30 Carbine is a round that is historically important, but not terribly ballistically relevant to the modern discussion of personal defense weapon ammunition. Buy a 351 winchester online. Save your pennies and hold out for the M1 Carbine then save your pennies and start stocking away ammo and magazines. Midway USA, for example, which is among the best at keeping ammo in stock, reports 35 varieties of .30-30 while only 15 offerings of .350 Legend. Plainfield Machine produced M1 carbines from 1960 to 1977, when they were bought out by Iver Johnson Corp, who has manufactured them at least until a 50th anniversary model in 1993. That is to say, .30 M1 Carbine bullets travel 2.3 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .30-30 Winchester bullets travel 2.7 times that same speed. in the Big Bore Model 94. I think if enough people went online and contacted Winchester and Hornady, and asked them to make up a run of ammo in 351 WSL and 401 WSL in 20 round boxes, perhaps they would make a limited run. 351 winchester vs 35 remington - look.perfil.com Very well cared for rifle, there is a barely noticable very small chip in the stock .Click for more info. The M1 and M2 carbines continued in service during the Korean War. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. Standard government-issue rounds reach over 1,500ft/s (460m/s), with factory loads, and handloads producing similar velocities or tuned for more efficient short-barrel performance without excessive blast. The .401 WSL fired a 200 grain .406caliber soft point bullet at 2,140 feet per second for a walloping 2,034 ft-lbs of energy. The 30 Carbine was necked down to accept a 0.308" diameter, 110-grain full metal jacket (FMJ) bullet. and is a good cartridge for hunting the thick woods for deer, hogs, black bear or even elk. At 400 yds., the .358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the .300 Win. They would probably still be around today. You are being redirected - Shooters' Forum *We Never share your email without your permission. In both cases, the recoil is the result of the action types used on these early autoloaders. [5] Most ammunition available today for the .351 SL is produced by a few boutique manufacturers, often using either cast lead bullets or copper-plated bullets or, occasionally, .358 jacketed bullets resized to .351 or .352 caliber. Most commercially available loads for the .351 SL launched a 180 grain .351 caliber bullet at between 1,850 and 1,925 fps from a 20-inch barrel, yielding identical muzzle energy to the .30-30 when fired from a 20-inch barrel (rather than a manufacturer's long test barrel). The .350 wins that power matchup, but this 170-grain .30-30 option offers 1,827 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle while this heavier, 180-grain .350 Legend only produces 1,762 ft.-lbs. At 300 yards, it has 19 percent more energy than the .300 Win. Winchester 351 Self-Loading: Truly Amazing! - YouTube Posted February 22, 2017 in Ammunition, AR-15, Daily News, Guns & Gear, Other Gear & Gadgets, Rifles by Nathaniel F with 123 CommentsTags: .30 carbine, 7.62, 7.62x33, assault rifle, ballistics, carbine, drop, Education, energy, history, M2, performance, personal defense weapon, rifle, second world war, us carbine m1 .30 cal, velocity, world war 2, world war ii, ww2, wwII, Left to right: .351 WSL, .30 M1 Carbine, .45 ACP, 5.7x28mm SS190, 5.56x45mm M193. First year gun, manufactured in 1939, Pre-WWII. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. I couldn't even begin to think of a reason to use such a bastard case/bullet size as the 351. At 300 yds., the .358 Norma impacts only 0.96" lower than the .300 Win. The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. Please try a new zip code and search again. A well known gun writer implied that had the M1 carbine been chambered for the 351 cartridge origianlly it would have been a far better battle rifle. Sorry, there are no results in your area. GunGeek # 7867163 07/03/13. I wonder if any gunsmith has made a AR 15 in 351 WSL? Having said that, it must be noted that the rifle and caliber combination is certainly not perfect. Mag. Why the public abandoned it so quickly is a mystery to me. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. The .35 Whelen is accurate, hits hard, penetrates deep, shoots flat and recoils mildly. The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Trigger Housing Group The decision for which round is better for a given application should be made with complete information, and this article simply serves as a comparative guide, not the final say. Still, I hope its clear how closely these cartridges stack up. Nominally they weighed 180 grains, were usually jacketed softpoints and were propelled from the 20-inch barrel of the Model 1907 at about 1,800 fps. I would hold out for the 30 M1 CB unless i was just buying the Winchester for hunting or collecting . Hornady Custom: 2018 fps. The result was the M1 carbine.[7]. Winchester 1907 I believe was made in 1908 semi automatic 351 caliber has a couple of clips with it. The .358 Win. and the .32 Win. I have quite a bit of money into these guns now but I have one of each. and the .30-30 with 781 ft. lbs. The Model 351 C is an AirWeight variation of Smith & Wesson Centennial Model. 351 Winchester Self/ Loading 12 HRN390552 19 LEE90004 15 LY7738055 19 RCBS09219 5 RED11005 In fact, as Speckin explains, the whole series of Winchester Self-Loaders were designed as smokeless semiautomatic analogs for the saddle carbine role. like a .223 and just about anything else. The .350 Rem. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win.,. Common types used by the military with the carbine include: The .30 Carbine was the basis for Melvin M. Johnson's .22 Spitfire (5.7x33mm), necking the .30 Carbine's case down to a .22 caliber bullet. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. The Winchester 351 self-loading rifle is. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. Indeed, Winchester used the .32 Self Loading as the basis for development of the .30 Carbine cartridge in the early 1940s. Dubbed by Winchester as the "fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world," the 350 Legend certainly seems to be designed to fill a particular role in those states which limit big-game hunters to straight-walled rifle cartridges. The competition in this category is just as close as ballistics, but right now, better availability gives the edge to the .350 Legend. The first design was further modified for Winchester's second prototype, adopted September 30, 1941 as the Carbine Caliber .30, M1. A Poignant Historical Reminder, The Winchester Model 1907. offered the performance level of the .358 Win. while finding .30 carbine ammo can be a challenge at times, finding adequate quantities of .351 SL would seem an impossible task. H Winchester Round Barrel Rifle, made in 1882. Miner had a heavy octagon barrel model 94 with it's barrel shorten to carbine length. I have one, of course, and it is fun to shoot, but I would never use it on a serious big-game hunt. WITH BAYONET. In 1958, the short-lived J. Kimball Arms Co. produced a .30 Carbine caliber pistol that closely resembled a slightly scaled-up High Standard Field King .22 target pistol. I have fired them all except the .22waiting for some ammo. and .32 Rem. Perhaps the most notablecharacteristic of the Model 1903 rifle and its later larger brothers was its blowback action. But in 2003 Remington decided to attempt a resurrection. It has never failed me. 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonchannel 13 weather girl pregnant; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonphiladelphia inmate mugshots; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonhanalei hat company; 351 winchester vs 35 remingtonpan peninsula canary wharf service charge 351 winchester vs 35 remington. Rifle Ammunition For Sale In Bulk Quantity - Outdoor Limited Back in the day, shooters were just transitioning from black powder to smokeless powder. with a 30 round magazine! Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. In firearms with a blowback action like the Model 1903, the breech is not locked and depends on a balance between the cartridge pressure characteristics, the heavy breechblock, and a powerful recoil spring for reliable functioning. Gun #: 943226118 . But these arent normal times. Since the sights on Model 1907's consisted of a blade front with open rear, its practical range was about 150 yards. OVERALL LENGTH 38? What is the going price of an original box of 351 ammo. 2 - The lighter bullet of the .30 Carbine made for much lighter ammunition. The .350 Legend goes for $1.15 to $2.30/round and the .30-30 Winchester anywhere from $1.15 to $4.70/round. The M1 Carbine is VERY reliable, sufficiently accurate for most urban needs, and is feather light. When Winchester was asked by Ordnance to develop a round for a new echelon weapon to complement the .45 cal 1911 handgun, their engineers fell back to the basic design of these rounds, adapting the .32 WSL into what was called in development the .30 SL, virtually identical to todays .30 Carbine. Many companies now offer bolt, semi-auto, and single-shot rifles chambered in the Legend, but the .30-30 can be found in the same variety. . Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351 zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. The .32 Self-Loading fired a 165 grain bullet at 1,390 feet per second (708 ft-lbs of energy) and the .35 Self-Loading fired a 180 grain bullet at 1,390 feet per second (772 ft-lbs of energy). Shootability Mag. The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .30 M1 Carbine vs .30-30 Winchester ammo rounds. Rifles; Sako Rifles; Savage Rifles. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180-grain jacketed soft point round nose bullets. Therefore, the M1 carbine is significantly less powerful than the M1 Garand. I have a 32 sl, 2 x 35 sl,351 and a 401. Paul explains the differences between the Winchester and Marlin .30-30 lever action rifles.Paul's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=5769301 This video . This is an Oviedo 1918 Spanish mauser chambered in .308 Winchester. Classic Police Self-Loaders: Model 8 Versus Model 1907 It credits the .350 Legend with 903 ft. lbs. Jordan Sillars Feb 3, 2021. Again, the above is for comparative information purposes only, and you should consult the exact ballistics for the particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester cartridge you're looking at purchasing. [6] (. lbs., which is lower than normal .223 hunting and varmint loads. By comparison, the .30-06 M2 cartridge for M1 Garand rifle fired a ball bullet weighing 152 grains (9.8 g) at a muzzle velocity of 2,805ft/s (855m/s) and 2,655ftlbf (3,600 joules) of muzzle energy. The 94 Winchester would have been a good place for the .401 s.l. America's Rejected Caliber | An Official Journal Of The NRA Oddly, its bullet diameter is truly .351-inch instead of the .358-inch normally associated with rounds such as .35 Whelen, .35 Winchester or .35 Remington. But they are so few in number that no general conclusion can be drawn from them. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. Reply. .30-30 Win, .35 Rem, .351 WSL, a.o., sizes. WINCHESTER 1907 351. Yeah. you can refer to it as "self loading" instead of semi auto and still have that "special feeling". . WINCHESTER 07 351 SL 5RD Magazine; ORIGIN USA CALIBER .351 SL WEIGHT 7.75 LBS. The 35 WSL fired a 180 gr SP at 1390 fps, this duplicated the 38-40 ballistics. The most popular cartridges for hunting and even target shooting begin and end with the thirties.